16 December, 2006

Two Comments by Marcella

Posted in Abbott and Costello, Abyss2hope, Alas a Blog, Distortions and Lies, False Accusations, Marcella Chester, Q Grrl at 9:46 am by Daran

Updated: See below.

This is in response to two of Marcella’s comments in the Rape and Probability Theory Thread on Alas. I’ve been trying to post this on Alas since yesterday, but I keep getting disconnects. (I have no problem reading pages.) I am posting it on my blog and also as a comment on hers, and I request that she copy it to the thread on Alas where it can be read by the same people who read her comments.

Me:

Nor was I even arguing in favour of the sentence “men don’t lie about rape”, rather, I was arguing against the sentence “Men lie about rape”.

Abyss2hope:

Arguing the second implies the first, whether intentionally or accidentally.

No it doesn’t. One could “argue[] the second” by asserting “It has not been proven that men lie about rape”, which, in fact, is what I did argue.

This is why the burden of proof upon you if you wish to claim that “men lie about rape”. I set the hurdle too low, when set it at one single verified false claim (I can’t find the post where I did that). The claim, properly constructed, asserts that the number of false reports by men (or by women) is (or is not) de minimus, so you need statistical rather than anecdotal evidence to meet that burden of proof.

The antifems think they have that evidence in respect of “women lie about rape”. I do not agree with them.

But this is an argument for another time.

* * *

Secondly, “arguing the second” is a reactive discoursive posture. One would not argue it, except in response to someone arguing in favour of “men lie about rape”, which Q Grrl did, sorta, in the post that spawned the monster.

Your post implies that “some people” (in particular, me) were proactively arguing in favour of “men don’t lie about rape”. Not only does that misrepresent me, but as far as I can see, nobody is arguing proactively in favour of this. I did a reasonable search, which I documented in my rebuttal, but in any case, I think it should be for you to identify the “some people” you are referring to.

* * *

Marcella also said:

Many of those who demand gender neutrality when talking about sexual assault victims, drop the gender neutrality when they talk about who lies about rape. To them it isn’t that some alleged rape victims lie, it’s “women and girls lie about rape.”

She distinctly said “All”, but that’s a minor point. Q Grrl has also Clarified what she meant over on my blog. I’m not trying to drum up readers, (OK, I am really) but that has lead to one truly great comments thread. Go read it. 🙂

Also posted as a comment on Marcella’s blog.

* * *

Update: Marcella responds (here and here.):

Daran, I didn’t say you were doing anything proactively or reactively. You may find playing word games a fun hobby, but those word games have a real and damaging impact on the way female rape victims are treated inside and outside of the criminal justice system.

That’s what I care about.

You may call them word games. I call them lies. And what I care about is being lied about. I have not “insist[ed] that women lie about rape while insisting that men don’t lie about rape”. That is a false characterisation of what I said, and I’ve explained, in laborious detail, why it’s a false characterisation.

I’ve assumed good faith on your part so far, but you’ve reached the end of that line. Please correct these lies.

2nd Update: Marcella has updated her posts (here, and here) which has gone some of the way towards fairly stating my position. It’s stiill a mistatement, though. I will return to this. (Here.)

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1 Comment »

  1. […] In response to a harshly-worded update to an earlier post, and an email saying the same, Marcella has updated her post, (also here) which I accept as a sincere attempt to set the record straight. Therefore I have stricken the harsh words. Unfortunately she still continues to apparently misunderstand my position, and consequently to present it in a misleading way. […]


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